If Your Depression Could Talk…
I was talking with my Ma the other day about my relationships. She was a little sad, worried even, that I was single yet again, having recently broken up with Michael (my ex-cub, 19 years my junior). It was the yet again part that got to me—as in, I’ve blown it yet again, as in I’ve wasted time yet again, as in I’ll be whining and sobbing about being single and alone yet again. Not that my Ma said any of this. It’s just that I beat myself up when things don’t go the way I think they should—which is, if I’m being honest, all the time.
Then I had this other thought. While often lonely and frustrating, the periods between relationships have often been the most productive times in my life. There’s something about the magnetic pull of a man that just throws me off course—sometimes for years (I know, I’m so weak.) Next thing you know, I’ve lost all track of myself.
Yes, I had lunch with this guy, leadership expert, Austin Vickers (AustinVickers.com). And yes he's fascinating. And yes he's single. Just one of the perks of being a blogger.
I was blathering on about this to Austin Vickers, a good friend of a good friend of mine whom I finally got a chance to have lunch with. I’d heard about Austin’s work as a writer and speaker, about his transformation from corporate attorney to leadership expert, about the documentary film he was creating, and I thought, now there’s a productive guy. And, will you look at that—he’s not in a relationship. How does he do it?
“Austin,” I said breathing a loud sigh. “How do I stay out of a relationship and stay focused on me?” Austin has a reassuring, I can help you demeanor and he’s direct too—I knew he wouldn’t let me wiggle away from a topic with excuses or ahem, B.S.
“Well,” he said calmly. “I’d start by asking that question the other way around: How can you stay in a relationship and stay focused on you? Then, I’d want to know what is it about a relationship that serves you? What do you get out of it? There’s a reason you want one. The secret is learning to identify what relationship brings you and then finding ways to bring that same thing to yourself.”
I chewed on my mushroom and leek tart and thought hard. “Sex,” I said sounding superficial. “And, I guess, attention, and it makes me feel young and alive.”
“Okay, that’s good,” said Austin. “But now, can you express that in terms of values, with a value being a higher principle, not a benefit—in other words, something that drives behavior, not the action itself. So, for instance, sex might satisfy a value around love and connection.”
“I’d have to say freedom, passion, and truth,” I said slowly, not being one to ponder values. “Younger guys seem so much more excited about life and less likely to judge me, which I find freeing.”
“Do you need a partner to feel those things?” Austin asked.
“It seems a lot easier,” I said not sure where he was going.
“Is it really?” he challenged. “You told me earlier, and the evidence would suggest, that you find being in a relationship challenging.”
“You caught me in my own logic, you, attorney, you!” This guy had a way of cutting right to the heart of the matter.
“Look at it this way,” Austin said taking another tact. “When I need physical intimacy, I get a massage. Sure it’s nonsexual but it’s still human touch. When I need emotional intimacy, I I call a friend. The more I fulfill those underlying values that I’ve identified as coming from a relationship, guess what it does to my need to be with someone in an exclusive relationship? It takes that need away. And guess what else, now I’m in love. But instead of being in love with some other person I can’t really control or rely upon, I’m in love with who I am, with my life, with the moment, and the things I love to do. That’s magnetic. When you have that, well, who’s not going to be attracted to you?” I learned back and looked at him closely. It seemed so simple yet I’d never focused on my values before.
Austin went on to describe how this approach of shifting from a behavioral identification to a values identification also works for problems such as depression, anger, or even addictions. I asked him to apply it to depression since it’s so common in women over forty.
“Most of us believe depression is bad,” said Austin. “We want to take a pill and make the behavior of depression go away. I want to know, how is it good? What are the underlying values of depression? And what is it trying to tell you?”
I looked at him perplexed. “How can depression ever be a good thing?” I said.
Austin took a few minutes to take a bite of his enchilada. All the talking had kept him from even tasting his food. “Think of depression as a messenger that comes from deep inside yourself,” he explained. “It knocks at your door because it has a message for you. And it’s persistent–the more you ignore it, deny it, or try to silence it with drugs, the louder it knocks.”
“Who wants to hear that message?” I said. “You know it’s bad—something that will make you uncomfortable or bring up feelings you don’t like.”
“But what if the banging to get your attention is the worst part?” said Austin. “And what if listening to the message could save your life, help you grow in vital way, and stop the banging. Would you still want to run from it?”
I nodded slowly and looked at him intensely. Austin continued.
“I’ll give you an example from my life because I used to suffer from bad depression when I was an attorney working in a left brain world. There were weeks where I’d suffer, often curled up in a fetal position dreading any social interaction and feeling terrible. Then, I had this thought–what if depression is trying to tell me something important? So I sat with my depression trying to find an underlying value that it was trying to bring me. That’s when I realized for the first time that I was often very creative when I was depressed. Rather than socializing I would stay home depressed and write. Ninety percent of my book was written when I didn’t feel like going out with friends and just sat at home writing.”
“That’s amazing,” I said. “Because I can’t get out of bed when I’m depressed—let alone write anything.”
“Maybe it’s because you’re still fighting the depression and not listening to it,” offered Austin. “I would actually accelerate my depressions. I’d listen to sad music, insulate myself, and get my pen and paper out to give myself to the message of depression. As I began to view my depression as bringing me the gift of creativity, I welcomed it rather than repressed it. And I more actively began to consciously bring creativity into my life as a daily habit, so that depression didn’t need to show up to lead me in a creative direction. Once I gave depression a new meaning and made space for it in my life, guess what happened to the depression? It released its message and went away.”
I thought of myself and some of my friends, women in their forties and fifties who were depressed over all the loss in their lives—loss of their youthful selves, marriages, and even careers in these tough times. What values did those things represent and could you really satisfy them in other ways?
“The problem isn’t that we experience depression, or anger, or any other normal human emotion,” Austin said as though reading my mind. “It’s that, because we don’t like the feelings they produce, we dismiss them without taking the time to look more deeply into them to find the underlying values, which are always the most important starting point.”
“You’re a hot, eligible, forty-something guy,” I said abruptly changing tact . “What do you think about this whole cougar thing? Or put another way, what do you think of older women who value guys in their twenties?” I cleared my throat and looked at him expectantly.
Austin smiled. “Well if it’s a hot cougar turning me down for a younger boy, I don’t like it,” he kidded. “Otherwise, I think people are too judgmental about things like that. I think that the cougar is really looking to create certain values in her life that come from that guy who is in his twenties. There is certainly nothing wrong with wanting to create values like spontaneity, enthusiasm and hope that he probably brings to her.”
I was into my second cup of coffee by this point in the conversation, relieved to hear that change wasn’t so complicated—more a matter of perspective, really. We finished off our lunch by talking about the importance of listening to your inner voice. I knew doing just that had taken my life into a completely different direction. Clearly, it had done the same for Austin. He was busy shooting his upcoming documentary, People v. The State of Illusion. He’d recently made it possible to experience his coaching process online while also contributing to a charitable cause. You can learn more at his website, austinvickers.com. If you sign up for Austin’s coaching program and write SeasonedSex in the promotion code field, you get your first month free. See how much I love you?
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Comments
Well, I’m going to be totally shallow. He’s just a serious babe. How depressed can one be sitting across the table from that?
Hi 2Passion, love getting comments from the guys. I’m curious — how do you feel about this whole cougar/cub thing?
Actually, I have always wondered about the older/younger relationships. Kinda reminds me of the comment I heard about why would Tiger Woods marry a Swedish model — because he can! So why wouldn’t an older guy date a younger woman and an older woman date a younger man– if they can?
I went back and read your break up post. It was interesting when he asked about still having sex. If that was all that the relationship was about (sex) then that would have been fine. Maybe that was all it was to him. But I took it that you needed something more and that he was not able to give it to you.
From looking at your posts, it appears you enjoy sex. (Damn, that is refreshing to hear!!!) But sex without something else is just mechanics. My problem with the older/younger thing is that it would be hard to find some common ground, common interests. Maybe not impossible but hard. Do they like (or even know about) Al Green, Jimi Hendrix, Otis Redding, Buddy Holly, Aretha… what about the old movies, the old songs? What about our times??
After the sex– what do you talk about??
My thought (and I know I shouldn’t make such generalizations) is that the young guy or girl is not really into the older one but is in the relationship for some “ulterior” motive. And the older one probably has some issues as well.
Remember “Something’s Gotta Give” with Jack Nicholson? Perfect example. That was the ideal situation of finding that person close in age that shares a mutual attraction and mutual interests coupled with compatible sex drives and you are good to go!! That is something we all want and need. I envy those that have it.
So I guess it comes down to what your expectations are to begin with. If all needs are met on both sides, then I say, “You go girl!!!” Maybe your Keanu Reeves is just around the corner!!
And I see no difference between the older guy and older woman.. if it’s good for the goose, it’s good for the gander… and I could sure use a good goose right now myself!!!
(BTW… I would not kick a 20 something out of bed if the chance presented itself either– hell, we can talk about the great sex!!!!)
Interesting to hear your point of view 2Passion. Except I can’t imagine great sex with a 20 year old. 
I’m almost 53 and my quasi-cougar husband has only known be as a ahem, “mature woman” as they say. We married when I was 41 – he was 34. One comment he made to me once about our sex life was that I was always ready – meaning – ahem – parts were always well lubed shall we say? Without a whole lotta help from him. I could just kinda think about sex and well……..:D
I was NOT like that at 20. And after having relationships with men in their 20’s when I was 30 and beyond, I can’t say I found them particularly exciting either. They lacked a real sense of what masculinity was which made it all about the act, but not about the passion. Yawn.
Anyway – I found your post interesting too.
2Passion — you’re right on the money, or should I say, G Spot. Michael (my ex) is a great guy but you’re right, a connection based mostly on sex was working fine for him because most of his time and energy was going into building his career. It wasn’t enough for me. There was a lot we couldn’t share either because he wasn’t available or wasn’t interested. It increasingly left me feeling empty. Now, is that all a function of age? Maybe or maybe not. I’ve certainly been with guys my age who don’t get that a great relationship has many pillars and sex is just one of them. What’s interesting about your comment is just how similar the experience of younger/older dating is from the man’s perspective. Thanks for the thoughtful wise comment!
Think I’m about to go on a cougar hunt!! Where have you ladies been all my life!!!
Just got into this blog thing. It can get addicting, especially if you have no life!!!!!
However,after reading some of the posts and comments here, I’m thinking of changing the title of my blog to, “Unseasoned Sex”, because mine definitely needs some spicing up.
My problem is that my wife thinks things are just fine. Spicing things up means kinky, weirdo, perverted and yes “sex addict” (she actually called me that!!).
So what’s a fellow to do???
I do think that there genuinely are people who need medication for depression.
I think depression is a bit like being gay. Sometimes its environmental, sometimes it’s genetic, and sometimes it’s both.
My dad was depressed as long as I knew him.
I think I will be on drugs the rest of my life, and I am OK with that.
But there are days when I feel a bit icky, and I definitely do what Austin suggests. I let it out, and I have a foolproof way of doing just that.
I call it the Chick Flick Crying Trick.
You can read all about it right here:
http://www.ittybittycrazy.com/imported-data/2009/2/18/i-am-woman-the-chick-flick-crying-trick.html
IBC
Holey smokes! After reading much of this blog, I decided that you need to know about Thanks for Coming, One Young Woman’s Quest for an Orgasm, written by Mara Altman. It’s a
book you’ve gotta read. It is a funny and honest story of her experiences while seeking an orgasm. It’s a great gift! I’m the proud aunt of the author.:). You can get it here.
http://tinyurl.com/ycc58bv
I really like that view of depression! Though depression comes in all shapes and sizes why not at least try to look at it like a message? Take something positive from all the negative experiences that have caused you to become depressed. Like I said though, depression comes in different shapes and sizes and thus there are a multitude of different remedies which means sometimes you need the medication. As far as the whole cougar/cub, younger/older relationship “thing” goes I can only speak from my view on it all.
I am 20 years old and attracted to older women however not every older women can get me to “lap up her bowl” so to speak(where did I hear that from lol). Granted the physical side of an older woman who takes care of herself could drive me crazy for many eternities, the personality side is key. As much fun as sex is(and I’m not even close to becoming seasoned) I have to feel that deeper connection with a person before I can hop in the bed with them. Might come as a shocker but I personally have turned down sex with a few rocking cougars because the simple fact that intellectually there was no stimulation.
In all I believe if you really want that fully satisfying sexual experience you need to find somebody you click with as much physically as intellectually. To me it comes down to would I rather have more sex but less connection with a woman, or have a very solid connection with said woman and less sex but much much better sex? For me it’s all about quality, not quantity and that comes to me partially on how I connect with my other. Again this is just me and not all men and woman are the same so it’s a matter of knowing what you want and what makes you happy in your life.
-Britt
Oh yes, it’s a compliment. You have the wisdom of a mature guy! Such a pleasure to hear it in a young man. I’m sure some lucky cougar is waiting to get her paws on you.
I can only hope haha. It seems like up in the great state of Washington they are beginning to disappear. They all seem to be moving south to California which really sucks 
and the ones that are still up here have become very hard to find from doing the daily “stuff” if that makes any sense at all. Have to find a new way to track my hunters so to speak haha
Magnolia is feeling particularly grumpy and hormonal today and so………Britt, if you ask my kids, (who by the way are horribly close to your age) they will tell you that when I’m feeling this way I’m way too cynical.
So, no, I don’t believe you’re twenty.
Hehe it’s all good Magnolia, we all have our days. I know hormones can really suck but you should smile every day! Especially the bad days. Get out and do something you enjoy!
Forgive me, Britt (who is 1.5 years older than my son) but I have a hard time believing that you and I share “those kind of days” It’s not happening.
I appreciate your effort to empathize, but truthfully, dear, you can’t, you won’t and well, I’m sorry, it’s not working.
In fact, it feels a tad bit patronizing.
But, I’ll leave now before Pamela gives me a swift kick in the rear for picking on her blog readers.
No no no, you miss understand. I would NEVER EVER try to say I will know what it’s like to have my hormones go crazy on me like they do for you ladies(sorry you have to go through that stuff by the way). I’m sorry if it came across incorrectly, what I meant is we all have bad days and it’s important to smile everyday but more importantly on those bad days. Again I’m very sorry, I didn’t mean it to come across that way and I should have written it “I can semi-understand that hormones can really put a hamper on your day but…..smile…..everyday….blah.” I do appreciate you saying that though, I didn’t realize how it came across.
See, this is why cougars/cubs have “ishoos” Britt. We are so far apart in life experience it’s reeeeally hard to bridge the gap.
I’m nearly 53 years old. I hate “put on a happy face” cliches’ and I hate platitudes even more.
That’s what happens when life kicks you in the ass for a few decades. All of that idealism falls by the wayside and you “get real” as they say.
For what it’s worth, my husband who is younger than me, used to be a “put on a happy face” kind of guy too. But, he was 34, single, and had a prosperous career as a military officer that enabled him to travel the world and hang out in places like Tahiti and Fuji.
When he wasn’t doing that he was jetting around with his other single, equally as prosperous military officer buddies and chasing the babes on the slopes of Aspen.
But then, he got married. To an old broad with 2 kids and we brought another one into this universe.
Now he knows what real life is like. Sometimes we get grumpy and tired and feel horribly harassed. So, when somebody comes along who is free from these encumberments and says….”Just smile! Especially on a bad day!” Well, frankly, I would like to smack them.
So, please accept my apologies for taking out my “hormonal grumpies” on your fresh, idealistic point of view today.
I’m sure you’re a nice person and a sexy cub. It’s just been about 30 years since I’ve shared your idealistic point of view.
Like I said, I’m a touch grouchy today.
I’m going to drop some heavy plates on my head so I can stop worrying about my economic future and focus on a headache instead. Then I’ll thank my lucky stars that when people (er, Mags and Britt) are left to their own devices, everything (somewhat) happily works out and even spelling errors get corrected so Fiji can go back to be an island (or a bottle of water) and not a mountain (Mt Fuji). Love you guys.
It’s all good, I don’t take it personal. I enjoy hearing different views because I know very well that mine is neither the only nor the best out there, it’s simply what works for me. I do look forward to hearing more and learning more from you both!
-Britt
Just stumbled on your site. (And I’ve been doing a lot of stumbling in my life lately!!) Interesting title for an interesting woman! You seem to have it a lot more together than you want to admit. I think we all are searching for passion in life. As an older guy, I’ll watch your posts and hopefully learn some valuable lessons.